Etsy shop closed by US law firm

[Broxigar]

I've just received an email from TME-Law on Friday (20th). Has anyone contacted them and can provide some solutions?

If you paid them, how much was it? Did you get your Etsy store back? Thanks.

[Highlandlass51]

Any updates from those with TME please? I had my shop closed and email from TME. Unable to read much of it on the phone.

I had caricature of Metallica on a mug. Schoolgirl error as always been careful

Thank you

[chakian]

So I havn't paid the TME-law. Is it not very dubious that a small firm like that would be hired by so many big artists?

I havn't got my store back because ETSY is not letting go until the lawyer says it's ok. I am trying to close it, but Etsy doesn't let me close it because I have a plus balance there. They are not letting go of that either. I don't understand how Etsy works. I could take the money to pay the lawyer but they are just holding them without telling why.

[patchandflag]

Same situation as the rest. Etsy close my store. I contact the lawyers ( TME Law, P.C.) and they ask for uss500. I tell them that my financial situation is critical and I offer them uss150. They ask me to make a new offer for their client.
I offer them uss240 and they tell me that the client accepted that payment. The client they represent is Metallica. Can you imagine Metallica fighting for crumbs?
I don't know how etsy allows this type of scamming games disguised in the legality and infringements of etsy stores.
I don't know whether to pay the uss240 because I really don't know if etsy will refund my store.
Has anyone who has paid, had their store refunded?

[AndyJ]

Hi patchandflag and welcome to the forums,

I think you can be sure that the band members of Metallica will see very little of the money which you decide to pay to TME, assuming that you do. TME will have concluded a deal with the trade mark owners, which is probably WG&S LLP, Metallica's business managers (assuming it is the same company as for the UK trade mark registration). That deal will probably say that TME get 50% of anythig they recover, and then WG&S will take out its management fees from its share, say 25%-50%, leaving a relatively small amount to be divided 10 (?) ways between the current and former members of Metallica.

Don't be too hard on Etsy. They are only doing what the law (the US Digital Millenium Copyright Act) requires them to do. Arguably the law only requires them to take down the material which it is alleged is infringing, but their terms of service say that they reserve the right to disable the whole account where intellectual property infringements are alleged.

Good luck with whatever you decide yo do.

[Phoenix87]

Hopefully this might help someone in the future. Without going into too much detail I did manage to get my shop back.

With Etsy unfortunately they will only accept resolutions from the law firm (confirmation you’ve been taken off the list), so if you’re set on getting your shop back I think the only way is to either make a settlement or get solicitors advice. I did pay to settle this but it was no where near what was originally requested. It took around a week after the settlement for my shop to be reopened but I was chasing Etsy a lot on this.

[Harry77]

Post withdrawn at the request of the poster.

[chakian]

I ask Etsy to close my shop but even that they won't do because I have a balance that they are not sending me. I don't know why the money is not sent (I don't have a reservation anymore) to me and the situation is standing still. Since the balance is about 1000 $ maybe it could pay the settlement. But Etsy doesn't answer why they are holding it.

[AndyJ]

Hi Harry and welcome to the forum,

If you created the artwork yourself from scratch this is unlikely to involve copyright. I suspect that it is the registered trade mark for the band's name which is at the heart of this claim.

However if you have only sold one poster and that was within the EU, then TME have very poor grounds to pursue you through the US courts, which is their methodology. In theory since your Etsy shop is viewable in the USA, and Etsy of course is an American company, that does provide weak grounds for saying any trade mark infringement can fall within the jurisdiction of the US courts generally. However there is no specific jurisdiction for the Illinois courts to deal with the claim, Illinois being TME's preferred venue. This is because neither you nor the trade mark owner are resident in those states which make up the 7th Circuit, and obviously since you haven't sold a copy of the poster in the USA, there is no connection to any infringing goods being sold within the 7th Circuit. At most the claim rests on a tenuous allegation that the work concerned was 'advertised' within the District. And of course since you don't fall within the 7th Circuit's jurisdiction, any damages which might be awarded in absentia will be unenforcible against you without first getting the UK courts to recognise the judgment and any award of damages, which on the current facts I don't think they would do.

However while all that means that you could happily ignore their claim, unfortunately that won't get your Etsy store back, since that will only happen if TME rescind their claim. Etsy won't know and won't care about that fact that the claim is legally groundless. As you say you would rather let your shop remain closed than deal with them, you face a relatively easy choice.

Please bear in mind that is this is not legal advice and that if you are still unsure about your position it would be sensible to consult your own solicitor, provided that he or she has some specialist knowledge of intellectual property matters, or Citizen's Advice.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[AndyJ]

Hi chakian,

The fact that Etsy are hanging onto your money is not a copyright issue and so I don't want to discuss it in detail here, but if they continue to ignore you or to explain the grounds on which they are withholding your money, you should consult a solicitor or Citizen's Advice about how to claim your money back. However before doing any of that you need to carefully read and understand Etsy's terms and conditions which you signed up to when you opened your shop. In particular, note this statement under the heading Types of Account Reserves "A deposit delay may be between 0 and 180 days."

[chakian]

Thank you Andy for your answer. Etsy wasn’t explaining to me how long they hold the money.

In my case i did sell to the US from EU (not UK). Am I in real trouble then? I

[AndyJ]

Hi chakian,

No, I would not use the word trouble. The point about this operation by TME Law is that the threat of legal action is often sufficient to get people to pay up without the US courts actually ever deciding whether you and the long list of other defendants are actually liable for any infringement. Since the documents we have seen so far give no specific details about what it is you are alleged to have done, it's hard to see whether there are any defences against the claim. There's nothing I have seen to indicate that any of these claims have gone to trial. The filing process alone is sufficient to get Etsy to suspend the shops belonging to you and others, and so since most people are keen to get their shops reinstated, this is what drives them to settle with TME.
The fact that you are in the EU doesn't make you any more vulnerable to any award of damages the US court might order. Because you are not subject to the jurisdiction of the US courts, TME would need to get a court in your country to agree with the enforcement of any judgment which was handed out by a US court, and if the court in your country didn't think that you had been given a reasonable opportunity to defend yourself, then they wouldn't agree to enforce the order against you.

[chakian]

Thank you so much for your perspective. At the time I noticed it I almost thought my life was over! I was crying for two days imaging I was going to court and be faced with millions in debt.

[AndyJ]

For the many people who have had their Etsy shop closed down, and potentially for others who have experienced the same thing on other selling platforms, you may be interested to know that a prominent acadermic, Prof Eric Goldman, has written a paper on the phenomenon, which he has christened SAD (Schedule A Defendants). You can read it here via pdf: A SAD New Category of Abusive Intellectual Property Litigation

[Cazme]

Hi everyone, reading through this thread has been enlightening. Thank you.

I am having a similar experience with TME Law, I am from the UK and I am curious as to what the best course of action is. I assume my Etsy store is lost, something I was aware could potentially happen. I'm just curious to know if I ignore this, what the outcome will be.

I have received an email from Etsy linking me to the case, which contains a Motion for TRO document, and an Amended Complaint document among other things. Nothing in these documents is particularly relevant to what I sold, besides the fact they were associated with the SEGA brand. The whole thing seems very far-reaching and not actually specific to me.

My store makes on average £100-150 a month and has been active since mid 2021. They are claiming within these documents that I owe $750k+.

I have sent Martin Trainor an email, stating my case number and asking how I can resolve this matter. He replied asking me to clarify who I was, something I found particularly odd.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you!